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Modiphius > Robert E. Howards CONAN roleplaying game

Rules Question

posted Apr 26, 2018 13:09:00 by PhilipSmallwood
It seems to me Disarm is way to easy. All the players need to do is spend 2 fortune and its automatic. Boss character or not. In one case a character decided to spend 2 doom since he did not have the fortune to do it. According to the rules you should be giving at least one fortune per hour of play. That gives more than enough fortune for the players to be knocking weapons out of enemy hands at the most critical of fights. My question is can they actually do that? Spend doom for it instead of fortune and if so can the GM just spend 2 doom to disarm players? Because talk about screwing players over if you can do that. However it only seems fare if the players can do it.
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13 replies
Shran said Apr 27, 2018 13:36:25
You mean players can spend 2 Momentum to disarm, not Fortune.

Disarming costs 2 Momentum (3 if the weapon is two handed). However, that Momentum spend is not immediate! This means that the characters have to successfully perform a skill test first. A skill test could e.g. be a melee attack. If that attack generates 2 Momentum, the character could disarm the opponent.
But you cannot just spend 2 Momentum from your pool or add 2 Doom to disarm someone. That is not possible. This only works for Immediate Momentum spends. The key "Immediate" meaning that you can use it any time and don't have to wait for a successful skill test.

So I think you played it wrong, players cannot add 2 Doom or spend 2 Momentum to automatically disarm opponents (nor can the GM). It always requires a successful skill test that generated 2 Momentum.
rrcautela007 said Apr 28, 2018 12:39:35
I second that notion.
PhilipSmallwood said May 05, 2018 15:52:25
Thank you. Yes I meant momentum not fortune. However if what you are saying then players may not use momentum pool from group momentum? Momentum is very easy to come by once an action scene starts as the group racks up successes. Also as far as doom any unspent npc momentum goes to doom and doom is the tool the GM uses to throw a monkey wrench into the players plan. So I wondered if it could be substituted.
I still feel however that its too easy to disarm. I feel it should be a gamble. They should have to spend the momentum for the opportunity to make a roll to see if it succeeds. Not automatic.
ChrisFougere said May 06, 2018 01:24:11
We did this wrong for quite a while and the difference between Immediate spends and non-immediate spends makes a big difference.
Shran said May 06, 2018 16:46:34
There are two types of Momentum spends: "Immediate" and "Non-Immediate" (or "normal").

"Immediate" means you can do this at any time and do not have to wait for a skill test. This Momentum is payed from the group pool or by adding Doom. An example is if players are buying additional dice.

"Normal" or "Non-Immediate" spends happen after a character makes a very successful skill test. Because the character rolled so well, they gain bonuses, e.g. disarming an opponent. This momentum cannot be payed by adding Doom but can be drawn from the group pool. Excess Momentum is then added to the pool. So e.g. if a character rolls a very good attack roll, they get to disarm someone. It basically is a gamble, since the players cannot know how many successes they roll. But if your pool is full, it is very likely.

You are correct, unspent NPC Momentum gets added to the GM's Doom pool. And the GM can use Doom to complicate the life of the player characters. This is an Immediate spend.

Edit: My original statement was that "Non-Immediate" Momentum spends could not be payed from the pool. That's incorrect.
[Last edited May 15, 2018 13:06:29]
rrcautela007 said May 07, 2018 14:15:06
Excellent splainin' there S!
Dislikes_Elves said May 12, 2018 22:00:18
Better explained than in the rule book I think.
Aaron.C said May 13, 2018 02:11:48
Hi guys,
I think I might have had a lightbulb moment reading this thread, but referring back to the rules and FAQ I can’t see where it says you can’t use the group momentum on ‘normal’ (non immediate) momentum spends.
Can someone point me to where I am missing it?
liegelord_ds said May 15, 2018 01:37:50
Per Shran...
This momentum cannot be payed from the group pool or by adding Doom.

I have to disagree here. The rules are shown in the Player Handbook (pg112) - see below.

Yes, many momentum spends require you to succeed on a skill check FIRST in order to "activate" that momentum benefit. So yes, Shran is correct that you cannot simply use party momentum to immediately "disarm" an opponent (prior to a skill roll, because Disarm is NOT an "Immediate" momentum spend), HOWEVER, if you succeed on a (perhaps ?melee?) skill check, then you can use (if any) momentum you generate, ALONG with that stored in the momentum pool.

From the Players Guide book, pg112 (poor grammar alert [within]...):
Momentum can also spend it to assist the actions of other
player characters, who can then use that Momentum in
addition to any Momentum that they might generate
themselves through successful skill tests or other effects.
If players wish to share Momentum or save it beyond their
turn, they place it in a Momentum pool from which all the
players can draw.

Those momentum spends listed as "Immediate" indeed can be used WITHOUT the need for a skill check, and hence are the core options available for momentum spends from the party pool in the absence of a skill check.
Shran said May 15, 2018 13:01:53
I have re-read the section in the core rulebook. The text there is clearer (p. 102):

During any successful skill test, a character may spend Momentum saved in the group Momentum pool instead of or in addition to any points generated from the successful skill test itself, spending from either or both as desired.

So you are correct liegelord_ds, you can indeed spend Momentum from the pool to disarm.

This is quite a shock for me since I never realized it. So thanks for pointing it out. I will correct my original post as to not confuse other readers.
rrcautela007 said May 15, 2018 17:08:37
Maybe a designer oughta chime in to clarify once and for all.
Nathan.Dowdell said May 16, 2018 15:55:24
You've gotten to the bottom of it by yourselves, so I'll just confirm.

Disarm is not an Immediate Momentum spend, so it requires a prior skill test to use - this'll normally be an attack, but doesn't have to be.

Any Momentum spend may use Momentum from the group's pool (Immediate Momentum spends differ in timing - they draw from the group pool purely because they're used at times where that's the only Momentum available - and in that they can be paid for by adding to Doom instead). The GM may spend points from Doom in any situation where the players would spend from the group Momentum pool.

Also note that the cost of Disarm goes up to 3 if the enemy is holding their weapon in two hands. Plus, the weapon just falls within Reach, so it isn't especially difficult to retrieve a weapon after being disarmed.
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ChrisFougere said May 16, 2018 19:02:43
I've found that the system flows better if I limit the group pool to only Immediate spends. Anything else must come from the task result. It's a House Rule but it works much better for my group.
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