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What constitutes "using" Values and Directives?

posted Apr 02, 2018 00:20:24 by TimLintern
The title more or less sums it up, but I'll elaborate for clarity. Page 293 of the core book explains the three criteria by which characters can be eligible for a milestone. The first two (challenging a value or directive and suffering a lethal injury) are entirely self explanatory, and obviously channeling a value to spend Determination would also qualify as "using" a value or directive.

My question would be "what else counts as "using" a value or directive?" Is this defined somewhere in the rules and I've just missed it?

My assumption and preference has been that good roleplaying relevant to the criteria should count (such as a character making a bad moral call because of their values, or playing strongly to a value about inquisitiveness for good or ill, for example), but if the answer to my question is that only a direct, mechanical use of values and directives qualifies, what's the point of this criteria given that the only reliable source of additional discipline points (namely challenging) already qualifies you for a milestone?

EDIT: We are aware of the rules as written (unless, as I mentioned, there is a definition of what constitutes use of values/directives tucked away somewhere), including the basic rules about determination and niche sources of extra points such as the benefits of the Captain and First Officer positions. My question is about interpretation, if that clarifies things at all.
[Last edited Apr 02, 2018 04:29:38]
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10 replies
Deadmanwalking said Apr 02, 2018 00:43:05
You start with a Determination point every episode. You can thus spend one every episode regardless of Challenging. means you spent Determination via a Value or Directive.
TimLintern said Apr 02, 2018 02:58:46
Sorry, I must not have been clear enough. We know the rules, including that each PC gets one point of determination at the start of each session. I'm asking an advanced rules question about what, if anything, might be interpreted as a "use" of values and directives aside from the Determination mechanic.
[Last edited Apr 02, 2018 03:07:37]
Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 02, 2018 11:04:02
Values and Directives are "used" in the following ways:

When a character uses a Value or Directive to spend a point of Determination, that Value or Directive has been used positively.
When a character suffers a Complication because of a Value or Directive, and gains a point of Determination as a result, that Value or Directive has been used negatively (this is the primary means of gaining additional Determination).

When a character crosses out the text of a Value and gains a point of Determination as a result, that Value or Directive has been Challenged (this can only be done once per mission, and, thus really shouldn't be considered the "only reliable source" of extra Determination).
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TimLintern said Apr 02, 2018 12:39:52
Well it's not precisely what I was hoping for, but that does clearly explain how the third milestone criteria works, thank you!
[Last edited Apr 02, 2018 12:43:32]
StephenBirks said Apr 03, 2018 07:58:45

How often did you envisage characters receiving additional Determination? Thus far it has been my experience that it is largely only the automatic starting point that most characters have access to.
jonrcrew said Apr 03, 2018 09:37:25
And follow up question - which I don't think I've seen an answer to yet... for purposes of getting the milestone - p145 of the corebook says they have to have one positive or one negative, p299 says one positive and one negative... Which is it?

Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 03, 2018 10:13:34
@StephenBirks - In general, at least half the group should have the opportunity to gain an extra point of Determination during the course of a session (though players are welcome to refuse these opportunities). However, also remember that players can suggest situations where they suffer a complication to gain Determination... so it does heavily depend on the players and their willingness to inconvenience themselves for the sake of later benefits.

@joncrew - It was originally written as one of each, but it was changed to one or the other at the last moment, so that it's more likely that everyone gets a milestone.

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jonrcrew said Apr 03, 2018 16:08:06
@Nathan: ah, that's good - we've finally got a player achieving one!

We might want to add that one to the official errata list?
TimKellogg said Apr 03, 2018 16:58:24
Can we please provide an example of this mechanic? Let me take a stab at it from my limited perspective - Captain Forrest has the Value of "All Sentient Life Matters". So when he has to chose to attack, or respond to an attack, he is challenging this value. Correct? If he kills a sentient being, this would be a negative challenge?
TobinQai said Apr 04, 2018 02:45:56
If Captain Forrest is in a situation that calls for lethal force, the GM may offer him a point of Determination if he accepts a complication, such as an increase in difficulty or complication range for certain actions. This point of Determination may come in handy for pursuing a nonviolent solution, but if the situation proves too difficult, Captain Forrest may challenge the value by crossing it out, gaining one more point of Determination as a result. The complication remains in play, however.

Captain Forrest may make a lethal attack without challenging his value in the mechanical sense.
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