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Modiphius > Fallout: Wasteland Warfare
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Things i would like to see this game do (but with all likelihood not)

posted Apr 26, 2017 23:38:28 by DCP
First off let me say this I've been a fan of fallout for a good 15 years now and have immersed myself deep into the lore and the idea of a minuter tabletop game sounds like fun however like most people who can be considered relics i want to throw my two cents in before being ignored for what's "fun and cool" so here are some things i would like to see done here

a dis-ownership of fallout 3 and 4 in any from of book:
ok here is the big one off the bat as much as people might like these two games they have warped the lore and world of Fallout more than Tatics did and it shows the number of retcons, faction rewrites (looking at the brotherhood and enclave here, the dumbing down of the raider tribes to gangs, DC and Boston super mutants (shouldn't exist west tech wouldn't have given FEV to anyone), T-60(i'll get to that later) and a number of other things i could mention.

Use the old Enclave lore
This ties into what i just said but it gets its own little section i am assuming you will be using something like the Warhammer40K Codex to show players how to use each faction as a result please use the Interplay Era Enclave Lore because of the many many retcons the ones given to the Enclave was some of the most damaging with them turned from a Post war Powerhouse to just a group of rich sods who runaway with some expensive toys (fallout 3 retcons their creation of Veritibirds and fallout 4 their creation of Advanced Power armour MRK 1)

Mention the Master Lives
This is a small things i think will need a mention in the Super mutants fluff "the master lives" is a piece of lore that explains a lot of things wrong with the Nightkin (someones watching) and considering he may have linked himself to the Vault-Tech Network there is a good chance the master is alive and well as a digital spirit AKA "the ghost in the Machine" (don't know what that means look it up)

Psykers
The master, Nighkin, the Forcaster, Moore, Gideon the list goes on and on Psykers are a very big part of the Fallout world thanks to it's connection to FEV while not everyone can be one Factions like super mutants should be allowed access to at least one or two

Ghouls and how they are made
FEV+RADIATION this is how a ghoul forms not just from radiation and this is KEY anyone with a brain should know this but bethesda being bethesda want to bury everything Interplay ever did under a landfill of retcon and now anything Radiated is now ghoul worthy

t-60 series power armour
as much as i don't like retcons this does actually need one badly the height of pre war power armour was the T51-B and the post war was the APA-MRK1 this things placing itself between the two (and you know bethesda would have made it "the greatest suit ever!!!! if they could have) is just plain wrong say the brotherhood made it after getting the Power armour blueprints off the Enclave or they came up with it on their own just try and fix it

west before east
the west coast of fallout was built to be played on the table top over 9000 (:P) times more than Fallouts 3, NV and 4 could just remember that the stories that place has would be better than "there is a settlement that need that saving coz we gud guys" (god i hate that guy)

Vault doors
if the door is 'Seal-N-Safe' Vault Door Model No. 343 it opens outward remember that outward

The dark humor
remember fallout is very funny after all what other game can i have a shotgun wedding, travel back in time, talk to a stone head, play chess with a scorpion and break the fourth wall all in a single afternoon (Fallout 2 because bethesda doesn't understand anything)

these guys http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Humanoid_robot
please i like them and they are cooler than Synth will ever be and actually work in context of the lore (god bethesda why Synth)

i'm sure by now everyone has either stopped reading or has started typing how i'm just a grumpy old man who can't get with the new times so i will end it here considering that fact nothing will come of this and with WH 8th ed around the bend i'm sure people will just ignore this anyway for those who read though all of this thank you i don't hate bethesda i just have a bad taste in my mouth after 15 years (trust me it will do that)


Edit: Wow thanks to everyone who responded to this it's a great surprise to see people talking about this issue from both sides i didn't really think anyone would reply or even see it so this is something that makes me happy thanks to everyone and let's hope even if this game is just a Fallout 4 table top game we can use the clearly well made miniatures (and maybe books) to have fun games
[Last edited Apr 30, 2017 04:02:33]
just someone who want's the best but always expects the worst
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34 replies
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BasilShim said Apr 27, 2017 12:23:03
I kinda agree with lots of things here, but I think what would be cool is that you could play this stuff both ways, have both Interplay Fallout + NV (west) and bethesda's stuff (3 and 4) and just play the one you like, play factions the way you like them, e.g. have different BS - western (aka true one) and eastern or have outcasts as well.
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Mal said Apr 27, 2017 13:26:55
While I enjoyed Fallout 3, I also feel strongly about the fact that the lore part was heavily modified and not in a good way.

I strongly encourage the game designers to look closely at Fallout 1 and 2 and its look and feel. The OP is right on many fronts!
I aim to misbehave.
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UdmundVesipea said Apr 27, 2017 13:58:44
If the devs want to do justice to the Fallout franchise, then this is the way to go. Analyze FO1 and 2 to see what made them so great (Spoiler: the complex social issues faced by the post-post apocalyptic wasteland) work with the Fallout Bibles to extend the background further from Bethesda's "YOU CAN SHOOT MUTANTS IN THE HEAD AND IT ASPLODES xD" direction (Though to be fair, there seem to be some writers and designers at Bethesda that did put care and love into the lore and their versions of the wasteland, but the vocal majority overshadows that). This could be a brilliant call back to the way Fallout used to be.

I do hope that this will not be a cash grab aimed at the Fall of Duty 4 crowd, though so far it does seem to be exactly that.
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QorDaq said Apr 28, 2017 07:37:29
So, from the limited info I have seen to date, Modiphius is in contract with Bethesda. I don't know what that means for FO 1 & 2, Tactics, New Vegas, etc. But my gut feeling is that it will be limited to the FO 3 & 4 universe?

All of that said, I agree with the OP that the original franchise offers a ton of built-in Skirmish win. The upside, is that even if this game is Bethesda-focused, the old school setting will be a lot easier to mod into the table top game than vise versa simply because it was more of a tactical game in the first place.
maj! = Klingon word for "Good". Used in the context of "I approve".

- vay' DaneHbogh yIchargh!
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Jordan.Peacock said Apr 28, 2017 12:04:18
I sympathize about the rocky continuity, the retcons and lore warps with Fallout 4, but I was introduced to the Fallout universe via "New Vegas" (and from there I went backwards to check out the rest of the games), and I just couldn't stomach the idea of New Vegas being "disowned" along with FO3.

I've been trying to put together a "campaign bible" for running a Fallout-based campaign or two, and it's not easy to reconcile so many changes. For instance ... power armor. FO4 power armor is pretty significantly different from how it was in earlier games. (And internally inconsistent. I find a generator that apparently has been running off of a fusion core for 200 years, and Danse stays in his power armor CONSTANTLY, yet I pop a fusion core into a suit and it lasts -- what -- a few hours of accelerated game-time? Maybe there's some side-effect of being a formerly-cryogenically-frozen vault-dweller, that fusion cores drain several degrees of magnitude FASTER for you than for anyone else. ;) )

And yet, the exo-frame treatment is pretty cool, and has a certain appeal to it, versus "power armor" just being some suit you can (YOINK!) swipe off corpses instantly and pop into in the middle of combat like you could in FO3 or New Vegas.

The business about ghouls? I'm afraid I've no choice but to go with the Fallout 4 approach and say, "In this universe, we have '50s sci-fi/thriller movie physics," and accept that radiation does WEIRD STUFF, even when FEV isn't involved. I appreciate that in the original Fallout series, unknown quantities such as FEV were used as a sort of hand-wavy way to explain all these bizarre things, as if this could all happen in "the real world," but we've got so many other wacky things going on that this will never to my mind be "hard" sci-fi, so maybe I shouldn't sweat it. (Just as long as I can maintain "willful suspension of disbelief" among the players, I'm good.)

Supermutants on the east coast? That's pretty clearly established in FO4 that it's the fault of the Institute. WHY they would do this, and HOW they got their hands on FEV, I'm not sure, but they obviously have tech and resources, and warped morality. So that's not such a big problem for me.

I wouldn't want to say goodbye to all the good stuff from FO and FO2, but I feel like the aesthetic wasn't really properly nailed down until FO3 came along. For instance, that C-27 series humanoid robot? That almost looks like something I might encounter in a JRPG -- not some sort of retro-futuristic "It Came From the Late Late Show!" late-50s-early-60s vibe that I get from most of the Fallout robots. I'm planning on running a "Route 66" adventure that takes the PCs from the NCR to what used to be Chicago, so I'll have to make some references to the Midwestern Brotherhood and such, but any model I use on the table for the C-27 (say, a cameo by HR 1205) is probably going to be a much more clunky, retro-looking robot.
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PoolODeath said Apr 30, 2017 13:49:12
Well said OP. I couldn't agree more. I grew up playing the original Fallout's and it warms the heart to see others are wanting this game to feel more like the original lore. I'm not going to go down the route of my disappointment with what Bethesda have done with my favourite game, So I'll move on.
Great points made and I hope Modiphius work from the original lore as much as possible. Quite frankly there so much they can work with using it.
I also hope Modiphius can pull it off so both original and new fallout fans are happy.
[Last edited Apr 30, 2017 14:00:39]
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Martintoney2012 said Apr 30, 2017 20:38:27
OP hit the nail on the head, I think we can all agree.

So I'll ask you all this. Which one single thing would you like to see the game do?
For me, the thing I want is lore accuracy.
Ad Victoriam, Brothers and Sisters.
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PoolODeath said May 01, 2017 20:02:16
@Martintoney2012 The best I can hope for is in all sense and purposes (A lot like one of DCP's suggestions), West and East coast versions or in other words new Fallout and Original Fallout, and seperate the differences in lore, looks etc. by what Coast the "faction" or models are from. It's bar no means perfect and not likely to happen, but hey ho.
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Martintoney2012 said May 01, 2017 20:09:51
The best I can hope for is in all sense and purposes (A lot like one of DCP's suggestions), West and East coast versions or in other words new Fallout and Original Fallout, and separate the differences in lore, looks etc. by what Coast the "faction" or models are from. It's bar no means perfect and not likely to happen, but hey ho.


As you say, it's certainly not a perfect solution and nor is it likely to happen, but I'm looking at it like this. We're finally getting a proper Fallout tabletop game. For better or worse, it's better than nothing!
Ad Victoriam, Brothers and Sisters.
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verdunbishop said May 02, 2017 14:30:25
I disagree with a few of your points. I think it's not too hard to keep both happy.

-Enclave lore hasn't changed. Of course they arent the same in FO3 as in 2, but after getting most of your people and leadership wiped out they would change. It was always a hide away faction, why there's no mention of them in fO1. The development of their Advanced PA hasn't been changed in either of the Bethesda games.

I do agree that how common Vertibirds are in FO4 is annoying (coast guard, really?! -.-). However I didn't see any mention during FO2 of them being designed and produced by the Enclave post war. With their small base also wouldn't seem likely they would have done it post war and they'd have needed something to transport them to and from the oil rig.

-Have no problem with the Master details, although seems it isn't in much position of power so table top isn't in a position to use it.

-Original developers couldn't agree on what causes Ghouls. They disagreed with one backing FEV + Radiation and the other just pure Radiation. Bethesda seems to have gone with the wild/mild FEV theory + radiation.

-Totally agree about the T-60. That was an idiot move. Sure they could add a new PA and it would of been simple to do it. T-60 is the EBoS improved T-45.

-Would rather see a mix of it. Some factions should be split between them. BoS can be broken down in to 3 groups: West, Mid and East chapters. Then have some smaller packs which expand on each region as they are different but do share a chunk of content.
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DCP said May 03, 2017 07:40:37
@Bishop i'm guessing you missed Nuka world in fallout 4 the fact that the "X-01" (better known by it's true name APA-MRK1) is found sealed inside of a glass container hundreds of years before it's creation is clearly Bethesda saying the Enclave didn't make it.

On the subject of the Vertibirds i can explain it pretty easily they used to use the Oil Tanker that "ship captain" runs in San Fran and don't forget that the first Fallout game takes place in the southern Pre-NCR while Fallout 2 takes place in the northern section not to mention the known time gap between the two games, also there is the case of stealing the plans for the vertibird from Navarro and considering what Navarro they could have (if not designed i'll walk to that bridge)manufactured most if not all of them there or maybe in good old Chicago (because honestly i think that place is like a temporal distortion when it comes to the world of fallout).

like i said in the master part just a mention in the books towards it

just someone who want's the best but always expects the worst
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Jordan.Peacock said May 03, 2017 13:46:42
@DCP re: Chicago & temporal distortions:
I never played "Fallout Tactics," but one thing I note about the Fallout wikia entries is that I so often (such as when reading up on their entry on Chicago ;) ) see something like "The following is based on FALLOUT TACTICS and some details might contradict CANON."

Re: Enclave Armor:
According to Fallout 3, the Enclave armor is "Advanced Power Armor Mk II," and it's supposed to be composed of "lightweight ceramic composites." Considering that the X-01 armor found in Fallout 4 doesn't require us to repair it with aluminum, and not a bit of ceramic, perhaps it's a different armor that only bears visual similarities because -- hey, why not? Maybe in the Fallout universe, some of those weird elements actually have some functional purpose and not so much, "Hey, for the next grade of power armor, let's make the helmet look like some sort of mutant alien bug head!" If it was top-of-the-line armor, perhaps there's something about that "ant-head" helmet design and so forth that was worth keeping (despite its ugliness) when the Enclave developed its own APA-MRK2.

I mean, yeah, it could just be a case of sloppy writing, but we can still work around this particular glitch. Just say that the armor found in the Boston Commonwealth was a new, cutting-edge design that hadn't yet seen a big rollout, and what the Enclave had was something that might have shared design elements, but was significantly technologically improved.

(Now, what I would be curious about would be if Bethesda were to reintroduce the Enclave, would Enclave power armor still use the EXACT SAME internal frame that all the power armors in Fallout 4 use? Or would it be its own thing? Because that WOULD be a major improvement, if, canon-wise, Enclave armor doesn't have "ablative" pieces that keep popping off as you take damage. ;) )

For my own RPG campaign, I'm rolling with that explanation. I have a few proxies and kit-bashes that could pass for the old Enclave armor circa Fallout 3, but isn't nearly bulky enough for the "step-in" armor model of Fallout 4. In my head-canon, the Enclave must have acquired the "artificial muscle strand" technology used in the Y-17 Trauma Override Harness, and then used THAT sort of tech in their "power armor" rather than hydraulics and servomotors, so their armor is much more suit-like (less "mechanical exoskeleton you step inside"), allowing for greater agility, quieter operation, etc.

(Not that I can in any way figure out why in the world the Y-17 Trauma Override Harnesses in Old World Blues have visible, exposed, skeletal hands, and yet somehow they operate guns. It's supposed to be the SUIT doing everything -- not that the operator is undead -- but I'll just chalk that up to "artistic license" with the model not quite meshing properly with the fluff.)
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verdunbishop said May 03, 2017 15:58:07
@DCP: No I haven't played it, however there's very little details on it in the game from the Wiki. A common complaint on the FO4 forums was a lack of a full set of X-01 armour due to it being RNG if you are at a high level and go near a location with PA.

No you can't. Oil tanker was sabotaged and we have to repair it to be able to use it. It can't have been the main form of transport as it wasn't quick and has limited deployment areas. It's also not a good way to transport VIPs to the oil rig before the war, doesn't seem to be signs of any other VTOL aircraft in Fallout. They would have the plans, they are a high tech faction that needs to keep their equipment running. If Navarro has the raw materials and the equipment to make Vertibirds and all the R&D sections for them and their testing then it would support it being pre-war.

They over lap, the top and bottom of the map changes but that's about it. Even then the towns in FO2 don't seem to know who the Enclave are and takes the player to get it resolved.
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DCP said May 03, 2017 23:47:49
@Bishop considering it was a Poseidon Oil tanker for the Poseidon oil rig and the parts to repair it are found in the ship and a enclave base it's pretty easy to see how it could have been used

Navarro doesn't need to have all the baseline raw materials they could bring them in to build the aircraft, also the argument that people in Fallout one didn't notice anything is pretty cut clear the construction could have happened in the literal decades between the first two games, on that do you know the exact day the oil tanker was sabotaged because the fact there is an enclave captain on board means it has to have been in recent years
just someone who want's the best but always expects the worst
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verdunbishop said May 04, 2017 19:21:55
-edit-
This isn't really going to go there, I think we will keep disagreeing so probably best to try and look at ways to improve the game for it. Game seems to be going off FO4s lore and designs.
[Last edited May 05, 2017 16:24:59]
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