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How are People Managing Out of Game (Between Sessions) Purchases?

posted Sep 14, 2016 16:02:51 by darklingsanction@msn.com
So all I can think of is 1) Trust um (no really...), 2) I have to interact with them between games. Both sound painful.
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23 replies
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Nathan.Dowdell said Sep 15, 2016 12:36:13
Not sure about interacting with players between games being "painful"...

Failing all other options, handle it in a few minutes at the start of a session - essentially a "business from last week" before you start the new session's events.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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darklingsanction@msn.com said Sep 15, 2016 13:10:09
Painful in it requiring coordinting times, meeting up, getting to the same location, etc. Waiting until the start of the next session defeats the purpose of the question - managing these things between sessions.
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Jason M said Sep 16, 2016 02:27:48
All the purchases thus far have been in session though lets look at the issues and try to come up with a fast solution.

1) finding stores and narrative time
2) generation of cash flow (momentum grants +1 cashflow in previous)
3) cost of goods
4) effect of cash flow in game

Starting with easy issues
4. If players are going to do between game shopping it should come out of their cash flow from the next session (affecting bribes etc)
3. Before the players leave roll 10CD (I think only 7CD are ever needed) and list their order, all purchase will base their cost on that roll.
1. Rather than search for the stores have the players pay 1 additional cashflow per restriction of the item. And a minimum of 1 asset must be spent for restriction 3 and 2 assets for restriction 4 items regardless of earnings. Dependant on the current campaign state you may want to rule amount of time to find items. Restriction 0 - 0.5 hour, restriction 1 - 1 hour, restriction 2 - 2hours, restriction 3 -4 hours (doubling each time) including the bulk purchase penalties.
2. This is the hard one, I would suggest the players come with their list of items at this point, with the total cost. And have them make a single roll for the assets required. If infufficent successes, cross off items starting at the bottom of the list as the search was fruitless despite costing assets.

This would not save that much time but does cut it down to one roll at the start of session regardless of number of items, rather than 2 per item, and a lot of shop jumping to find a cheaper item. It means some weeks the player have reliably cheap items and other weeks they will be over priced but that probably works for what I think you are asking.

Only my brief thoughts, you saw the method I was going to use for buying items in lifepath to allow the players to browse the item list rather than attempt to find items, but that deliberately skips issues 1,2 and 4 as well as the players earnings allowing a poor player not to be disadvantaged at the start as the richer players will probably be better off buying in game.
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darklingsanction@msn.com said Sep 16, 2016 03:10:27
That's another thing I am having a problem swallowing - rolling to find an item. Unless its proscribed, I mean in 10 minutes today I could find a Whisky class attack sub, tanks, armored personnel carriers, rifles, pistols, ammo. How is it the process is so much more difficult for them thousands of years in the future?
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Jason M said Sep 16, 2016 05:43:12
Only 140 years from memory but your point stands.

It is why I prefer the acquisition system in MC3, which is funny given they are both 2D20 games and both require similar amounts of rolling.

In MC3 the randomisation is in the players earnings not the goods, they roll CD equal to their earnings and deduct that from the total, (effects, increase total by 2 but always cost an asset, not quite so appropriate to the earning levels of Infinty, adding the players lifestyle and no cost to assets makes more sense for the background of Infinty). The restriction ratings function similarly, but do have time also associated with them, but transport is harder than in human sphere, with MP3 restriction 1 taking an hour and restriction 4 items taking a month. Assets then are added to make up any shortfall, rather than pre allocations them and possibly failing wasting assets ( and prevents the need to roll more than 3 extra d20's the current system seems to require for big purchases)

But while I agree that finding a Namer APC for sale for approx 3 million in 10 minutes is doable, I would be impressed even with Robert Downey Jr's check book (33mil+ a year) and sufficient licences you are going to get possession in less than a week or even probably a month. So some amount of searching is reasonable, the item may need to be custom manufactured (power armour) or retrieved from a secure facility a sit isn't kept in the showroom, particularly dangerous weapons, ammunition or explosives, and even ducking down the street to grab a few boxes of ammo, I would expect takes a little time even in gun happy America, or at least waiting for the courier.
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darklingsanction@msn.com said Sep 16, 2016 06:07:52
Wow so we need to throw insults around? Really? Guess I'm done here.
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SteveHanson said Sep 16, 2016 06:21:48
Darkling? I don't see it.
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To his friend a man
a friend shall prove,
To him and the friend of his friend;
But never a man
shall friendship make
With one of his foeman's friends.
--Havamal
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Jason M said Sep 16, 2016 07:01:17
I apologise if I have insulted you really don't know how as I agree with you. Very puzzled? The only thing I slightly disagreed on was while I can find an item quickly I don't nessecarily have it in my Possession that quick, unless it was a comment on gun laws, in which, case I will clarify living in Australia, there is a lot of hoops to be gone through just to be allowed to buy hunting grade ammunition, I was under the understanding many states in America those restrictions are not there so you can just buy the ammunition, with little more than a drivers licence. But I could be wrong. And the fluff statement I really didn't think was an issue.

Regardless if I have offended I sincerely apologise.
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SteveHanson said Sep 16, 2016 07:28:15
I can go to Walmart right now, it's 0200 by the way, and purchase basically any ammo I want, and be home with it in 15 minutes. Now that's any non military grade. That's in Oklahoma and I'm pretty close to the Walmart. Your mileage may vary.
Forum Moderator

To his friend a man
a friend shall prove,
To him and the friend of his friend;
But never a man
shall friendship make
With one of his foeman's friends.
--Havamal
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Jason M said Sep 16, 2016 08:27:50
Where as in Austalia I need a class A firearms licence to buy a paintball gun or air rifle. And if it's a air pistol need a class H licence and to attend a minimum of 4 club competitions a year in addition to the licence. We aren't even talking powder based guns.
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darklingsanction@msn.com said Sep 16, 2016 14:37:16
I took offense to the "Gun Happy America" label Of course Jason would have no way of knowing how hot a topic this is in the US.

FYI you can pick up surplus British APC's for around $10k (There is a FV432 in the Netherlands and two more in Poland right now available for 14,500 Euros), Former Soviet BRDM, BTR and OT-64 run around 40k. Now if you want a tank - T-72 will run you 50k to 75k. You don't need any special permits for APC's (Unless you want to drive it on the street), though you may need one to move it from country to country.

Point being I found those in 2 minutes in 2016. I find it really difficult to believe a hundred plus years from now it will be harder or take more time. I would further speculate that if a Combi-Rifle was legal to own, I could tell my Geist "Hey find me a Combi-rifle" and it would return hundreds on any civilized planet (again where they are legal). Every dealer in the area would want to be my friend AND think of all the competition for pricing.
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MatthewCochran said Sep 24, 2016 08:53:54
I can agree with how this convo is going. I think it is the wording more than anything though. Instead of saying a failed roll fails to find the items (or fails to get them at a normal price) change it to be that for every success missed (so let's say you need 3 successes and you get 2) that it would take slightly more time and the cost would go up slightly (meaning it took you some extra time to find the item because you went to the wrong places or bribed the wrong people, and it costs a little more because by the time you found it, you found someone selling it slightly higher than normal. So make it have a base cost of +1 higher per success missed. Meaning at max a restriction 4 item would simply add 4 to the cost (which could be very heavy) instead of out right failing to get the weapon)

This is something I might just house rule into my games as I also have players complaining about the same thing.

and of course, you can also say that on a planet where something is harder to get (think of an Ariadnan weapon on a PanO planet) that a fail is simply a fail. But the above does get rid of failing to find things that should be available.

I would put one restriction though. And that is that you have to have the same amount of dice minimum for an auto succeed to happen (So a restriction 4 item would cost at least two assets so that you have at least 4 dice). Otherwise players with a high cash flow would simply role and hope for the best and just take the increased cost at no asset cost.

So I would recommend an update to the system, or have something along the lines of what I suggested as an optional rule (A lot of players and GMs love optional rules because they can change certain things in just they way they might be looking for). And if this is not done, I would suggest house ruling with what you feel comfortable with.

As for the original main question. I do not allow between game purchases. Between scenario purchases (so when the characters have downtime, not the players) I allow them to make their purchases at the end of the session or the beginning of the next session without reducing their starting cash flow etc. Then again, I make use of roll20.com so I could have players come to me whenever and ask for things, and they can make the rolls there and anybody that comes on later can see the rolls and know we did not cheat (or I did not show favor towards one person)
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Nathan.Dowdell said Sep 24, 2016 11:01:12
I can agree with how this convo is going. I think it is the wording more than anything though. Instead of saying a failed roll fails to find the items (or fails to get them at a normal price) change it to be that for every success missed (so let's say you need 3 successes and you get 2) that it would take slightly more time and the cost would go up slightly (meaning it took you some extra time to find the item because you went to the wrong places or bribed the wrong people, and it costs a little more because by the time you found it, you found someone selling it slightly higher than normal. So make it have a base cost of +1 higher per success missed. Meaning at max a restriction 4 item would simply add 4 to the cost (which could be very heavy) instead of out right failing to get the weapon)

Something along these lines is easy enough to manage rules-as-written. The Test for Consequences option is essentially "succeed at a cost", where failing a skill test produces the bare minimum success (success with no Momentum), but also causes an immediate Complication in addition to any generated by the roll. Those complications could increase the Cost, make it take longer to find the item, find a lower-quality example of that item, (if you're trying to find an illegal item) draw unwanted attention during the acquisition, etc, etc.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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MatthewCochran said Sep 24, 2016 11:18:41
Good point, maybe add something along those lines to the gear acquisition because as you said, it pretty much is rules as written, taken a little out of context, making it very possible. So simply always have things succeed, either with enough successes or with X amount of complications instead. (I would argue that those complications have to be done right away and deal with the purchases in some way, like the cops catching on to you buying illegal things, instead of the possibility of turning them into heat like normal complications.)
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ThomShartle said Sep 25, 2016 06:00:18
1) On a planet with Millions and millions of people, all connected by an AI, I can't find a good price on something? Again - Google, today no problem. 2) I shouldn't have to make up house rules to skirt a broken rule / concept. 3) Again, again, rolls are still involved and the original question was how do I manage this between sessions.

We are talking about legal, legitimate purchases here, not black market.
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