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A couple questions about weapon qualities.

posted Apr 15, 2016 18:30:42 by Ryan Smith
Reach: The first attack made against somebody with reach is at +1 difficulty. Does that mean the first attack made per round, or per engagement, or per attacker per combat?

Vile: Do the serious wounds inflicted by Vile count as wounds for the purposes of a person being on their way to death? Like if I have 4 Serious wound boxes, and take 1 Vile, does that mean I can only take three more before I'm into Critical?

Gruesome, Toxic, Knockdown, Incendiary, Corrupted, Dreadful (and maybe others). If the damage from an attack is completely nullified by armor, do these still take effect? For some it makes no sense (I didn't get hurt but I'm bleeding?) For some it makes total sense (I didn't get hurt by the impact but I'm on fire), and for some I just can't tell (Corrupted...?) Was it intended that this be left open to GM interpretation, or is there a hard rule on it somewhere that I can't find?
[Last edited Apr 15, 2016 18:32:13]
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10 replies
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JakeBernstein said Apr 15, 2016 18:40:50
I'm not Nathan, but here's my take:

Vile: Yes, they count. Vile is bad bad juju. Don't get hurt by Vile weapons.

Gruesome, Toxic, Dreadful: These probably need to do damage to take effect. For Toxic, it depends--is it a gas that you breathe in or a poison that's injected from a wound?

Knockdown, Incendiary, Corrupted: These likely do not need to do damage to take effect. Knockdown and Corrupted I believe explicitly make that clear. Incendiary, it depends.

-Apoc527
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Ryan Smith said Apr 15, 2016 18:50:36
The only reason I was thinking Vile might not count is because it put the word 'wound' in scare quotes at one point in the descrption. For the rest, I'm happy using my discretion and such, ust wondered if I was missing a written rule.
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Citizen-171 said Apr 16, 2016 13:04:36
For weapons with the Knockdown quality only (all the Rulebook shotguns, to mention some), any Icon rolled adds 0 damage. A 1+T5 weapon could conceivably produce a D5 test to avoid being knocked prone while dealing 1 Damage.

This seems kinda counter-intuitive, at least as long as one considers the Knockdown quality to represent the target character being hit and knocked off his feet by the force of the blow.
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Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 16, 2016 14:09:54
Reach: The first attack made against somebody with reach is at +1 difficulty. Does that mean the first attack made per round, or per engagement, or per attacker per combat?

First attack per attacker per combat; if you or your opponent disengage, and then get back into melee, then the quality resets.

Vile: Do the serious wounds inflicted by Vile count as wounds for the purposes of a person being on their way to death? Like if I have 4 Serious wound boxes, and take 1 Vile, does that mean I can only take three more before I'm into Critical?

Yes. They're Serious Wounds in all regards. Vile weapons are nasty.

Gruesome, Toxic, Knockdown, Incendiary, Corrupted, Dreadful (and maybe others). If the damage from an attack is completely nullified by armor, do these still take effect? For some it makes no sense (I didn't get hurt but I'm bleeding?) For some it makes total sense (I didn't get hurt by the impact but I'm on fire), and for some I just can't tell (Corrupted...?) Was it intended that this be left open to GM interpretation, or is there a hard rule on it somewhere that I can't find?

Yes, they still take effect (otherwise there'd be problems with the Nonlethal quality). Remember that the attacks still hit home. Think of them as inflicting "less than 1" damage - a fractional non-zero amount of damage, too insignificant to remove Wounds, but still representative of a successful attack. There are minor ways a character can be harmed, even draw blood, without losing Wounds (things like paper cuts, scratches, grazes, bruises, etc).

For weapons with the Knockdown quality only (all the Rulebook shotguns, to mention some), any Icon rolled adds 0 damage. A 1+T5 weapon could conceivably produce a D5 test to avoid being knocked prone while dealing 1 Damage.

This seems kinda counter-intuitive, at least as long as one considers the Knockdown quality to represent the target character being hit and knocked off his feet by the force of the blow.

Broadly, "knockback" is counter-intuitive in the first place, because no firearm actually has the force to knock someone over like that in real life (if it did, the user would be knocked over by the act of firing the weapon). In this case, it's unrealistic regardless.

In the example you put forward, imagine it as a glancing hit that stumbled the target - it doesn't do much damage, but it hit such that the target is knocked off-balance.

Remember that the damage roll represents a wide range of variables and other factors; individual bullets don't have variable velocity or mass, but the precise location they strike (does it hit vital organs or major blood vessels?), the presence of absence of interfering objects (belts, thick clothing, items in pockets, etc) will alter the way they harm the body.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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Citizen-171 said Apr 18, 2016 15:57:39
In terms of "cinema realism", getting knocked back (or knocked over) by small-arms fire is an perfectly within what the law physics allow, the same way a guy killed by a gun will scream out in pain, but die quietly if shot with a silenced weapon. :)

While I can certainly imagine, justify and describe a huge Knockdown effect caused by a minimal-damage hit, we will all know it's bogus. The rules tell us what result we end up with, and we retrofit a barely acceptable explanation as to how we ended up with that outcome. Suspension of disbelief takes another punch to the chin and keeps going.

But hey, it's a bigger deal on paper than in real life. After all, with even dice distribution, for every Icon rolled you're going to get a 1 and a 2, meaning that in the long run every Icon causing a Knockdown effect will be matched by 3 points of damage, more or less.

Surely that's acceptable?
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JakeBernstein said Apr 18, 2016 16:00:15
And to tack on to Citizen-171's point, sometimes the Knockdown effect makes a certain amount of sense if a weapon's damage is all blocked by armor--all that kinetic energy had to go somewhere, so you fall down! (Ignore all actual physics calculations related to momentum and relative mass!).

Also, that point about the silenced gun and quiet death is hilarious and true.
-Apoc527
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Citizen-171 said Apr 19, 2016 06:07:23
"-- what happened?"

"Bloody hell! You're OK? You took a shotgun blast to the chest! I thought you were a gonner!"

"I was wearing my vest! *cough* Don't just stand there, get after him!"
[Last edited Apr 19, 2016 06:07:52]
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Matthew Hoeveler said Apr 19, 2016 21:39:36
I NEVER noticed that bit about silenced weapons...
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Alakhai said Apr 22, 2016 18:07:17
A question about Spread and other damages like the momentum spends that affects other location on the same target of different targets with half damage.

If you used momentum to negate Soak, it affects the secondary targets and or locations?

Example, a guy shooting at a Cable Marionette. It does 6 damage and uses 2 momentum to reduce the Soak from 4 to 0 and more momentum to hit another location with Half Damage. The Cable Marionette receives 6 from the main hit and 3 spread (half) damage =9 or 6 and the second attack is absorbed by the Soak 4 because the Soak reduction only applies to the main hit location/target?
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Vini, vidi, vici et fuit facilis. Alakhai
http://www.mutantchronicles.es/
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Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 22, 2016 19:46:52
If you used momentum to negate Soak, it affects the secondary targets and or locations?

Yes. This is to avoid creating lots of special cases and exceptions - it's simpler to have it apply to all the Soak values that interact with that attack.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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