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The Knockdown quality

posted Apr 06, 2016 23:19:42 by JakeBernstein
For melee attacks, it's fine. For ranged attacks, it's weird, but I can get over that.

The real issue is whether standing up should still be a Free action. In Infinity and Conan, Stand is a Restriction (or Minor) action. I'm considering that "errata," which helps Knockdown be somewhat more effective (basically you can't move very far if you get knocked down and want to stand up).

I was also thinking about adding Vicious 1 to Knockdown, but then I worry that (1) nobody will ever use a handgun that does NOT have Knockdown, and (2) there will be too much Viciousness.
-Apoc527
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8 replies
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Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 07, 2016 09:54:43
I'd be reluctant to add Vicious 1 to Knockdown universally, for the first reason you note (less so the second, but that's part of a shift in how we approach weapon design based on hindsight). It's more a cinematic affectation here - big handguns (and shotguns) that hit so hard that the target stumbles. It's unrealistic, sure, but it's also fun, and we try to work more to action movie logic than to real-world logic here.

However, I fully support any house rule to make standing from prone a Restricted action.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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JakeBernstein said Apr 07, 2016 14:57:33
What changes would you make to weapon design these days? I assume part of any changes come down to what damage system is in use. I personally prefer the MC3 damage system to Infinity/Conan and it seems like the weapon design in MC3 fits that damage model better than the Conan model which needs 5+ damage to generate a Wound.

I've also decided not to add a Vicious 1 to Knockdown. Making stand up a Restricted fixes the issue.
[Last edited Apr 07, 2016 14:58:26]
-Apoc527
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Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 07, 2016 15:04:05
Partly it comes down to the weapon damage rules (I'm biased towards the system we use for Infinity and Conan, as it was one of my developments), but partly it comes down to making things interesting - MC3 has a large number of weapons with nothing that triggers on a Dark Symmetry Icon, which means that the symbol crops up but doesn't do anything.

Infinity addresses that by handing out a larger quantity of qualities that trigger on an Effect. Conan resolves it, and simplifies damage ratings, by giving +1 for an Effect naturally (with quality effects on top) and having Effects on a 5 and 6, rather than just a 6, which both mean that we can get rid of the static value in a damage roll because average damage from dice is just high enough to not require it.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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JakeBernstein said Apr 07, 2016 15:09:28
Specialist ammo types would fix it in MC3 just as it was fixed in Infinity, right? The Conan rules diverge too much to make the switch, plus I like the difference between 1+ weapons and 2+ weapons as it presently exists.
-Apoc527
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Nathan.Dowdell said Apr 07, 2016 15:24:55
"Specialist ammo" in Infinity is a little different - it's a default part of the rules of the wargame that different weapons have distinct ammo types, with "ammo" being a mechanical space for "this is what happens if you fail your armour roll" in the context of the wargame (barring some oddities like smoke, most ammo types tell you what changes happen to your Armour or BTS roll, and what happens if you fail it).

It's a lot more integral to the concept in Infinity, while different ammo types is more akin to an additional layer in Mutant Chronicles.
Game Development - 2D20 System
System Design - Star Trek Adventures

Rules questions and playtest feedback to nathan@modiphius.com
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Citizen-171 said Apr 09, 2016 08:25:51
How about this for Knockdown: If a character is actually knocked down (i.e. fails the test), he cannot take a Standard action on his next turn unless he pays a Dark Symmetry point. (I was going to suggest the Staggered effect, but the Response action penalty seems a bit too harsh.)

And how about this for "non-special" weapons: If a weapon does not normally trigger any special effects with its DS Icons, add up the number of Icons rolled.

For every two Icons (starting with the first) the attack ignores 1 point of Soak.
For every two Icons (starting with the second) the attack deals +1 point of damage.

Thus an attack that rolls 3 Icons for damage deals +1 damage and ignores 2 points of Soak.

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Ryan Smith said Apr 09, 2016 17:59:38
It seems to me you could cover the mechanical uselessness of knockdown with role-play and narration in lots of cases. Somebody who is knocked down falls off the railing, or drops the fragile thing they are holding, or is intimidated into surrendering, or various other common sense things based on the context.

If there was a spell or other major effect that people were paying XP for that did nothing more than knock down, then I could see making it mechanically stronger, but isn't it mostly just a side-effect of some weapons that people would happily use anyway?
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JakeBernstein said Apr 09, 2016 18:34:27
Simply requiring a Restricted to stand back up works fine, especially if the GM considers that a character's only allowed movement for the turn.
-Apoc527
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