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Modiphius > Infinity RPG


posted Oct 07, 2015 05:48:47 by ChrisBirch
Discuss the Quickstart, error corrections etc here
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91 replies
Nathan.Dowdell said Oct 15, 2015 12:54:12
I don't know if this has been asked before but can you use Reaction to attack at range? I have seen that in Infinity wargame the players can do 'ARO' where one can attempt to fire as another unit is coming out of cover, moving or also firing. I think this idea is very cool.

There is an option for this - the Return Fire Reaction - in the most recent version of the Beta. I'm not sure why the Quickstart omitted it. It is, however, somewhat more limited than the AROs in the wargame.

Is that penalty aditional to the penalty of shooting out of the optimal range(close range)? I understand that melee (reach range) is another range.

No. Reach is a state within Close range (that is, if you're in Reach, you're in Close range, but if you're in Close range you're not necessarily in Reach). Reach literally means "close enough to physically reach out and touch them".

One more question, what is the optimal range of medikit & hacker device? I supose that is the close range

Hacking devices have a range of Close. MediKits are a little different - normally medical attention requires that you be within Reach of someone, but a MediKit increases that, so that you can provide first aid at range; in that regard, it has an optimal range of Close (so no penalty at Close range, +1 difficulty at Medium, +2 at Long, +3 at Extreme).

Obviously, with a lot of equipment, there'll be fully-detailed versions in the rulebook and/or sourcebooks.
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AlbertoMosqueraVillarino said Oct 15, 2015 13:00:13
well, at least clarificationas on equipment like the range can be displayed on the weapons fashion.

How exactily holomask works once activated? Can the NPCs discover the deception? at what dificulty? Is there a skill test needed to perform de action?
[Last edited Oct 15, 2015 13:10:23]
Nicholas Simpson said Oct 15, 2015 14:57:31
In regards to the ARO thing, there is the "Ready" action, which allows you to declare that you hold your action until after a trigger occurs. You could have that trigger be "until someone runs in front of me." You could also, presumably use the Swift Attack momentum spend to take a second identical Ready Action, and pay an Infinity Point to take a third. That along with Return Fire could cover ARO pretty well.

Actually, it may be a good idea to rename the Ready Action to AROS, since it's pretty equivalent. And have a note about whether you can use it with swift action/an infinity point.
[Last edited Oct 15, 2015 15:19:15]
Vladimir said Oct 15, 2015 15:36:42
In my opinion, renaming Ready Action to something other than Ready Action is a bit counter intuitive, and will result in people, who are not informed about the wargame going: "I declare an ARO!" "You mean you ready and action?" "Yeah..."

Actions is RPGs have been readied for decades now.
Nicholas Simpson said Oct 15, 2015 15:51:17

I guess it depends who you talk to. A lot of the people coming to this game from the minis game requested that things be named/retooled to play closer to the minis game.

There's also the "absterge" action, which I think is goofy. But, if the designers want the RPG to feel more like Infinity, naming stuff like that can be important. I personally like for games to thematically name their mechanics, so long as it's not getting to nonsense levels of white wolf world of darkness products (and even then, you can't fault the desire to be thematic, just th execution).

And your example kind of sounds like someone else raining on the parade of the player who wanted to call it an AROS action. Let people use the goofy names; they can be immersive.
[Last edited Oct 15, 2015 15:53:32]
Nathan.Dowdell said Oct 15, 2015 15:57:31
I looked at the terminology, and ARO (Automatic Reaction Order) doesn't make sense in the context of individual actions or reactions in an RPG, compared to the system of Orders it exists within in the wargame. As much as we've tried to line up a lot of terminology (Face to Face test instead of Opposed test, for example), some of it doesn't work out of context.

Holomask: functionally, it's a means to create a disguise. It works like a normal disguise would, only it's a hologram instead of a costume, make up, wig, etc, so it's a little more convincing and easier to use... most importantly, it's quicker to use - just turn the device on and you're disguised. Creating a disguise would be a matter of turning on the device (though it may require skill tests at GM's discretion to create or program particularly detailed or complex disguises), while convincingly pretending that you're the person that you're disguised as would require Persuade tests (deception, lies, etc) or Education tests (knowing the right details), depending on who you're trying to impersonate. Taking on the appearance of a security guard or a waiter at a party won't draw too much attention, while trying to disguise yourself as a specific person will require more in-depth knowledge and careful activity. It's also worth noting that an enemy hacker could well determine that you're using a holomask and disable it or change it to appear like someone else, though that normally requires that the hacker have some reason to suspect you of deception. And, as a hologram, prolonged physical contact, or physical contact that doesn't make sense (your disguise is wearing a suit, you're wearing hardened body armour) could arouse suspicion too.

Disguise is a tricky matter, requiring lots of GM judgement. There's a more in-depth stealth system in the Beta, which I've been developing for the final version. Disguise and social stealth will be elements of that, but it's not something that can be summed up quickly because it's more about how you act than anything else.
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Jonathan Polley said Oct 20, 2015 08:00:47
I had a quick question about how to use the Expert 1 attribute of the Combi Rifle after reading the new combat examples.

In the weapon attributes on page 20, it says "Expert X: The weapon has an Expert System for the Ballistics skill, granting X bonus Momentum."

In the example on page 18, however, it says "The gun also has Expert 1, which grants Snake an additional +1d20."

Which is it? Does the Combi Rifle grant 1 free momentum for the owner to spend, or does it grant an additional d20 to the skill roll?
AlbertoMosqueraVillarino said Oct 20, 2015 08:25:45
another doubt/errata reached my sight

In quickstart dowloaded oct 20th, page 18, side chart example:
The gun also has Expert 1, which grants Snake an additional +1d20

Expert description:
Expert X: The weapon has an Expert System for the Ballistics skill, granting X bonus Momentum.

so expert grants momentum. but in momentum text on page 10 & 11 it's not said anywhere that momentun can be spend to grant an aditional D20 to your roll.
momentum text:
When the number of successes scored on a skill test is greater than the difficulty rating, the excess successes become Momentum. Momentum can be spent immediately to perform the task faster or more effectively, or it can be saved and applied to subsequent actions taken on the same turn.

Momentum can also represent cooperation, group dynamics, leadership, action coordination, assistance, and other forms of teamwork. Players who have saved Momentum can spend it to assist the actions of other player characters, who can then use that Momentum in addition to any Momentum that they might generate themselves through successful skill tests or other effects.

Players are encouraged to be creative in their use of Momentum as they build success on top of success.

Examples of Momentum
- Spend one Momentum to perform the task in half the normal time.
- Spend one Momentum to add +1 damage to an attack.
- Spend two Momentum to disarm an opponent.
- Spend one Momentum to give another player +1d20 to a later skill test (max +3d20).

So, as I read, momentum canĀ“t be spent in adding D20s to your roll. That's a Heat unique trait. Or at least I understand it that way.

EDIT: @Jonathan Polley you totally outrun me XD
I somehow recall the expert trait to be diferent in the first QS version. Said like expert momentum can be spent to grant D20 to the ballistics or can be stored/spend like other momentum. I think that this is another simplification error.
[Last edited Oct 20, 2015 10:49:56]
AlbertoMosqueraVillarino said Oct 20, 2015 09:10:32
Some notes about the damage system

With the direct damage reduction by soak, my players have really trouble to make harm to their enemies and grow tired of spending round by round doing no harm at all. This is because An averange damage roll will do no harm to an enemy without momentum, it'll do small damage to an enemy in cover after spending momentum and no harm at all to an enemy in hard cover.

so, in order to make damage you are forced to spend a lot of momentum and reloads and be pretty lucky.

Combats tend to be long and exausting. Is there some advice I can tell my players in order to make the combat more dinamic?
ChrisBirch said Oct 20, 2015 09:12:53
@Alberto yes that's an error that needs fixing, Expert gives you bonus momentum IF your skill check was successful.
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AlbertoMosqueraVillarino said Oct 20, 2015 10:54:28
@chris, so the example is wrong and momentum can't be spent that way?
Nathan.Dowdell said Oct 20, 2015 13:43:24
So, I'm going to try and provide some clarity on this situation.

Firstly, yes, the example on p18 is incorrect - while Momentum can be spent that way, the Momentum granted by having Expert X on a weapon is not granted until after the test is successful, meaning that it couldn't be spent to improve that test in the first place.

Momentum can be spent to grant bonus d20s to yourself or to an ally on a subsequent test. The key part here is subsequent - you have to spend the Momentum on this before the dice are rolled. This can be done when a test is made (spending from the Momentum generated from that test, or straight out of the group's Momentum pool immediately before a test is rolled.

Bonus Momentum from items, talents, and other sources, is added to the amount of Momentum generated by a successful test involving that item - it grants no bonus on a failed test, and you cannot use the Momentum from it before the test has been attempted.

This will all be clarified and laid out clearly in the final book.


On to the matter of damage...

Armour and solid cover can be a big deal, yes, and weapon damages do average low per dice. This is deliberate - it doesn't take much damage to incapacitate an NPC.

However, there are a couple of pieces missing from that particular puzzle, which aren't covered in the Quickstart because there's only so much space.

The first is that characters add bonus damage to their attacks from high attributes. Brawn adds to melee attacks, Awareness to ranged attacks, Intelligence to hacking, and Presence to psychological warfare/mental attacks. If you have a 9 in the relevant attribute, add +[CD]1, a 10 or 11 adds +[CD]2, a 12 or 13 adds +[CD]3, a 14 or 15 adds +[CD]4, and 16+ adds +[CD]5. None of that is included in the weapon stats in the Quickstart, which makes the weapon damages somewhat low.

The weapon stats are a little out of date as well, but that's a minor thing.

The second is possible Momentum spends. Common combat Momentum spends include 1 Momentum to re-roll any number of [CD] on a damage roll (once per damage roll - you can't keep re-rolling), and 1 Momentum to ignore 2 of the target's Soak (can be used as many times as you want - spend 3 Momentum to ignore 6 Soak if you wish). In the case of the latter, that's total Soak, after whatever is rolled for cover.

Between those two elements, armoured targets should be easier to deal with. Not easy, because armour needs to be worthwhile, but manageable.
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Vladimir said Oct 20, 2015 15:33:51
I've ran the quickstart this Sunday, and my three player group had no trouble whatsoever murderizing morat boarders. Liberal application of buying dice with heat, and saving 1 momentum to reroll damage makes the Dog-Soldier a happy panda.
Nicholas Simpson said Oct 20, 2015 19:26:03
So heat adds extra d20s and spending banked momentum now also adds extra d20s. An Infinity point also adds an extra d20, albeit one that is automatically successful.

So the maximum heat spent is 3, for +3d20
The maximum momentum spent is 3, for +3d20

Is there a maximum number of infinity points that can be spent to add successful d20s?

Do these maximums from different sources interact (i.e. no more than 5d20 dice in a single pool), or can these different sources all stack together to have pools in excess of 5d20?

Also, since youve changed momentum to be a resource for each player, that opens up some cool opportunities. I don't know how far you've gotten with writing talents, but there could be some that basically act as special powers requiring you to have a lot of personal momentum. Basically, the same way that NPCs might have powers activated by spending Heat, players might get similar abilities from talents they have.

And as other feedback, given that you're recommending that momentum be tracked on a d6, have a square spot on the character sheet the size of a d6 for the player to directly place their d6 on it, or just record in the blank square, per their preference.
[Last edited Oct 20, 2015 19:33:26]
Nathan.Dowdell said Oct 20, 2015 19:57:46
Posting from my phone, so I'll be brief.

Maximum is +3d20 from any source. You can mix and match as you desire.

Note that Heat can be paid for anything that you'd normally spend Momentum for - if you don't get enough Momentum to deal the damage you need, pay Heat to make up the difference.

The matter of personal resource vs group resource has gone back and forth frequently. We're currently going with group resource as it's the least fiddly of several fiddly options and it's most conducive to teamwork.

I'm nailing down the rules this week, so last-minute feedback is appreciated.
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